Leaving the Nest Unlikely in Russia

 

 

Security or independence? What we value affects whether and when we leave home.  But, many Russians never are emancipated this way.

Most Americans teens are eager to leave home.

Americans help with college, but at some point they expect their children to sink or swim on their own. The parents want their own independence, filled with hobbies, travel, and activities... not encumbered with adult children at home.

This home-leaving ideal has been tempered by hard economic times and permissiveness in recent years.  The number of grown children living with parents, the Boomerang generation, has gone up.  These stay- at-home adults are called KIPPERS in Britain... Kids In Parents’ Pockets Eroding Retirement Savings ¹ Investopedia [hotlink]

 

Many Russians never fly the coop!

Russians expect to care for offspring well into adult years. Their culture expects them to devote much of their remaining energy to raising grandchildren and helping their grown children.  

Sometimes the older generation buys a car, or even co-signs an apartment purchase, not thinking how this generosity limits and puts at risk their own security.

Russians find stories - that are normal to Americans - shocking and wrong!

In 1970, at 28, I finished my Navy time, came home to Maplewood NJ,  and started a teaching assistant–history masters program at Seton Hall University in the next town. That winter my mother sold her house and moved to a retirement community at the Jersey shore, and told me to find another place to live.

Our Florida friend was a wild kid growing up in Bridgewater NJ.  Finally his parents had it with him, and kicked him out at 17, no longer welcome to live at home.

For how long and much should parents feel obligated?  Parenting shouldn’t be a life sentence. Children need to be taught increasing independence and self-sufficiency as they grow up.

Get up and go or stay and take over?

The expectation in the United States is that children become independent at 18 or college graduation and find their own way.  Mark Twain left home at 17, Jack London worked in a cannery at 13, and Steve Allen rode the rails as a runaway of 16.

Russia never had the same exuberant can-do spirit traditionally found in the United States.  Even now, it’s difficult to get up and go on a whim.  Rigid registration laws make it inconceivable that you could travel to another region of Russia without a arranging a job first.

In Russia, society assumes children will stay home until marriage, and often, even then not leave, but just add a spouse to those living in the apartment.  Instead of grown children leaving, they gradually take over!  No wonder pull-out beds are popular in Russia.

Hard to shake your kids in Russia...

It’s difficult for young adults to be financially independent in Russia.  Students are not expected to have part time jobs, which could lead toward more financial independence. Children here don’t look for work cutting grass, shoveling snow, baby sitting, as they do in the United States.

Part of the contrast is because of the Soviet effect of propiska... that everyone has a right to a place to live from which he cannot be forced out. An individual still cannot be evicted without the where-with-all for a replacement place provided.  (Russian Housing Code, Art. 31, part 4.) 

People confuse the former propiska law with registration laws now in force. Those officially living in an apartment may have a right to a proportionate share in its sale value. You can’t kick your son out... because he has a traditional right of ownership of a proportion of the apartment you all live in.

What cultural expectations are in your life script?

Russia for centuries has laid heavy expectations on parents.  As they age, it’s expected the older people, especially the grandmothers, will take on much of the care of grandchildren.  Grandparents often make  room for a growing family in the apartment by moving to a smaller room, and assuming a lesser role.

In America, people talk about old age as the Golden Years, and a time for fulfillment.  As, they say in the States, Freedom is when the dog dies and the children finish college.  But here people frequently say,  Ста́рость - не ра́дость.  Starost – nee radost. Old age is no fun.

Cultural expectations teamed with economic realities are as strong as the salmon’s instinct to swim upstream, spawn, and die.  There’s no right or wrong, but they determine much of your life script.  Do you feel their pull?

You’re invited to make a comment, or send us an email using the strip at the bottom of this page.

Technorati Tags: Le aving the nest,leaving home,Boomerang generation,Kippers,fly the coop,Mark Twain,Jack London,Steve Allen,propiska,Russian registration laws.

Your name unspoken when Russians chat.

 

An Avian Conversation Without Names

I’ve tried since 2000 to get used to life in Russia but some things always will be problems.  After nearly 12 years here, and me close to 70 years old, we’re not moving back to the USA because it would take more money than I have.  So I just have to continually remind myself to adapt!

I miss the Small Talk and friendly greetings heard in the USA and some other parts of the world.  People in In Russia don’t smile at strangers. (They say here you must be drunk or insane to do so.)

The lack of smiles I’m used to, but I haven’t adjusted to people not saying my name during Small Talk.

A major social difference in Russia your teachers didn’t warn you about...

In the US most people understand the importance of  names.  Dale Carnegie pointed this out.  If you remember someone’s name... your neighbor, supermarket checker,  store clerk... you try to use it as a sign of friendliness, respect, and to make the talking go easier.

No one expects in Russia to be addressed by name when  neighbors or acquaintances meet. If I see our next door neighbor walking outside or in the corridor I say, ‘Draszy, Gala’.  Her reply since I’ve known her never includes my name.  Typical, but for a small town boy such as I, it gets on my nerves.

Also, a typical Russian doesn’t know or use a store clerk’s name even though he may speak with him a few times a week. I feel this keeps a layer of frost on casual greetings, diminishing good feeling on both sides of an otherwise pleasant exchange.

This is the way things are, and will be. 

Greetings without names is neither a negative reflection on Russians or intended rudeness.  Here name greetings of acquaintances is considered unnecessary... maybe even effusive, gauche, or trespassing.

In European reserve often wins over simple friendliness.  This behavior is enhanced in Russia by their customs on what to call people, and when to employ a name.

How Russians call each other... (if they do!)

In the Russian language, names are not used as often as when speaking English.  It’s the flip side of what I advise Russians about courtesies... When speaking English you must use more of please, excuse me, thank you, and try not to give yes or  no without softening words.

If it’s family or a close friend, you may hear a simple first name... but less frequently than in English.

My son-in-law and his mother have always called Larissa with her patronymic, Ivanova tacked on.  But Larissa Ivanova sounds too formal to Larissa’s ears.  Authority figures at work, and people you don’t know well are called this way, a first name... then a middle name, a patronym based on the first name  of the father.

If you don’t know the full two name greeting, it is sometimes considered better to skip it than to use just a first name.

The good and bad of American social attitudes...

Wide open smiles, enthusiastic and loud greetings, and ferocious eye contact by some Americans can be a little scary to more reserved and diffident Russians.  Americans have no trouble initiating conversations  with strangers, say on the elevator or in your own apartment building.

This friendliness is usually innocent and just what I miss, but their is a dark side to American social dealings. They are often seen as aggressive... a steam roller, the conquering American.  I understand this reaction as I am put off by brash attitudes in some American television we have on our TVs here.

Violent thriller movies, the Discovery Channel, and now the Disney Channel are examples.  The Discovery Channel is especially awful... Bragadochios hefting guns, driving huge noisy trucks, swaggering.

Russians are a more passive people than Americans, also  sometimes good, sometimes bad.  They are less aggressive than Americans in simple social exchanges, and even geopolitically. 

They don’t have the background which makes the American culture prone to missionary zeal, and semi-psychotic preventive attack.  Americans feel they can change the world to fit them.

Here, people are more ‘live and let live’ believing in minding their own business.  They are less likely to have an agenda when dealing with other people... but also they are not as adventurous in finding new friends. 

Full circle!

Social attitudes in Russia and the USA are revealed by how and if names are employed in normal greetings.  I still use names when greeting my Russian friends and acquaintances but understand that they won’t or cannot return the favor.

Comments appreciated!  I’m eager to get your take on name/no name greetings. 

- When chatting casually do you learn and try to use the other’s name?

- When speaking another language do you switch etiquette gears? 

- Have you noticed a similar situation in other regions or countries?

 

Technorati Tags: small talk,greetings,patronym,Dale Carnegie,social attitudes.

 

St Peterburg Spots the Americans

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In this first of a 3-part series, we present a list to help you Spot the Americans! by looking at behavior and appearance.  This is a good natured list full of stereotypes that have some weight, as many items on the list reflect my American conduct.  So, please, don't be offended!

Also, those world citizens that travel are usually more refined and intelligent than stereotypes of various nationalities would suggest... so again, please take all of this with a pinch of salt!

Soon, in the second part of this series, we will interview a fairly typical American  to try to understand what is unique about American thinking and attitudes.

Then, the third part will be a summing up of observations, with some conclusions, and will give Some suggestions for travelling Americans.
                                                                                                                        
Recently, we listed How to Identify a Russian Spy.  Well, it's also easy to identify American tourists!
  Some Canadians object to using 'Americans' to identify only people from the United States, as they too live in 
North America.  But they and the Mexicans have brief appellations of Canadian and Mexican, so we refer to people from the United States as Americans (or Yanks).  If you are from the United States, Russians say you are from cha, an acronym that means the USA.

We are Predictable...

All of us are to some degree predictable, as individuals, and in a group... as Russians, as Americans, as women and men, as children at various ages.  No matter how much we want to blend in when we travel, for most of us our behavior and appearance will give us away. 

Americans are considered by many Russians to be loud, sloppy, and aggressive.  Yanks believe its good to act what they call 'naturally' and not be stilted or reserved.  People here think it is unwise and uncouth to call attention to yourself when on the metro or street by talking loudly.

Americans like to think of themselves as individuals, spontaneous, natural, impromptu... what you see is what you get!  Often men think the rough and ready look is endearing... but believe me, it isn't considered attractive by Russian women.  They admire men that are skromny and acuratna, behaving carefully and accurately, not presenting a mess of cowboy attributes and sloppy dress.

We Americans often believe it is good to step right up and say what you want, or what you want to change.  Many Europeans, particularly the Russians, view this behavior as aggressive.  They are more likely to hide their candle under a bushel basket.  (Matthew 5:15)

An American tourist is likely to...

Talk loudly, and unselfconsciously in public. 
'Hey, we're a free people and should be able to express ourselves wherever and whenever we want!  Problem is, it's irritating to more reserved Europeans.

Smile a lot, even when inappropriate. 
How can the last two American Secretaries of State both smile so much when meeting government officials in Moscow?  Russians are likely to take more than a little smiling as insincere and not fitting to the occasion  (expecially when done in a fire engine red dress, as Condi Rice wore).  Now Hillary Clinton is being a smiling ninny also.

Show poor posture.
We slouch at the table, at meetings, at home. 
Europeans are more formal.

Look like his clothes were thrown on, not carefully arrayed.
The average American man thinks the rough and ready Robert Redford look reflects his honest frontier mentality.  In Russia someone unshaven with disheveled clothes is looked on as probably drunk.

Wave when saying hi or goodbye... 
Russians don't wave and rarely beckon.  The last time they saw such gestures was when the Germans were occupying some of their territory.

Say hi many times a day to the same person.
Russians married to an American say this drives them crazy.

Be on time or early. 
The Russian view of time has been compared to that of rural American blacks.  If you are there around 30 minutes past the indicated time, you are on time in Russian eyes. 

I found this out when we married in America.   The minister and my sister were panicked, but Larissa arrived calmly 30 minutes after the scheduled start.  So, being on time in St Petersburg means you are probably 30 minutes early socially.

Look at the Militsa with interest. 
Our police, Militsa, stand around in groups, occasionally stirring themselves to collar someone to check for identification.  If you make eye contact, you may well be their next candidate, which can ruin your evening, and even your stay here.

Worry about safety. 
Americans are trained to look at situations to see if their could be a danger developing, and believe it is very important to report unsafe places and to expect fast action to fix the problem.

Russians have a superstition that it is bad luck to anticipate the future, and will close their active minds to potentially dangerous conditions, while making sure to step over the unguarded excavation.  Russia has a long tradition of open ditches and manholes, unsafe roads, ice everywhere in the winter, and accept this as the way it is.  Why try to change things?

Point at something.  I call this tourist The American Pointer, or a group...the Pointer Sisters.
You point and you will be quickly scorned as lacking class.  Again, you are calling attention to yourself and others with you.  Just describe where you want people to look, and don't stare.

Have a larger personal space.
Americans tend to move away when talking with Russians. People in St Petersburg are not fazed by crowds that I as an American find a little dangerous, as in the Metro at rush hour.

Go to great effort not to bump or touch a stranger.
Russian city people think nothing of  glancing off strangers that are slightly in their way.  They just don't consider it rude, so get out of the way, Citizen!  

An English expatriate and I were in a used book store last week paying for books, and we commented to each other later about how many people walking behind us in the crowded shop banged into us unnecessarily

Kiss just about anybody. 
After nine years here I still kiss women too often for their comfort.

Say 'I Love You' frequently to spouses, children, politicians, dogs, strangers.
This is considered by Russians a private matter not to be announced to the world.

Be quick to offer help, lifelong friendship, and sympathy.
The intention and sincerity is there, and commendable, but naturally not everyone can follow through all the time with their good emotions.  People are disappointed and label some Americans as superficial... not prone to serious commitment.

Be time urgent.
Time urgency is one of the defining traits of Americans.  'It's crazy around here!  I just don't have any time for anything!'  They view their world through mach speed glasses.  No time is often their excuse for not honoring  promises.

Value comfort.
Worries about hot/cold water, flush toilets, double spring beds, area heating and cooling, appliances, elevators, walking distances, class of transport.  Too much comfort makes life expensive and dull.

Be fearful.
It's almost impossible to frighten a Russian.  Americans just need a seed of an idea about flu, crime, or road hazards to scare them.

Put hands, sometimes feet, on the table. 
Americans like a lot of space, and like to spread out over a table.  I have never seen an American put his feet on the table in Russia, but many Russians believe this is part of what Americans do at home.  

My son-in-law told me that Russians feel comfortable placing their bread partly on the table surface because unlike Americans they keep their feet on the floor!

Not worry about his feet... where they are placed, what they have on, how clean they are.  An American in Russia needs to know that crossing his feet with his knees apart may show the soles of his shoes, which is viewed as very offensive.  To understand this caveat it's useful to know that Russians have an Arab-like obsession with feet.

We have shoes for dresswear, street , track , sandals, boots, and (most importantly) slippers,   called tapichky.  You must wear tapichky in your apartment.  You wear your street shoes and you are dead meat!
  
Every night Russians wash there legs and feet, even if they don't take a shower or bath.  Bathrooms usually include a towel for the feet, one for the body, and another for the hands.

Sometimes stretch after a meal. 
To me this is no big deal, but my wife finds it rude, so a word to the wise!

Belch with little embarrassment.
If you do belch, don't acknowledge it by apologizing... just pretend it never happened.

Whistle.
Russians think it is unlucky to whistle inside an apartment, office, or ship...  your money is at risk!

Not understand toasting. 
Here we toast throughout a dinner, first for the birthday or whatever ocassion it is,  then for the parents present, and finally for anybody or anything!  You are expected to down a jigger of vodka with each toast. 

You will never drink a Russian under the table, so don't even try!   Just sip your drink and watch everyone else.  A smart visitor joins in the toasting, even if he has to say it in English.

Buys presents that are way too expensive for the occasion.
Don't buy lavish gifts... it's considered bragging, and is unnecessary.  I brought home a dozen roses and got two negatives... only the dead get an even number of flowers, and three roses is the usual gift.
 
Wraps gifts and displays them after opening.
Russians don't wrap presents with paper and ribbons, they just give them unobtrusively and expect no comment.  The receiver puts the gift away, and telephones later with thanks.  When I first came to St Petersburg I made a big fuss about each birthday gift and displayed them on a side table.  This was wrong because Russians do not like to expose people to invidious comparisons, and they are typically quiet about giving and receiving presents.

Have a magnetic attraction for junk food.
Yes, there are Pizza Huts and McDonald's in St Petersburg, but why waste your time and travel dollars on franchise food?  My weakness is Italian food, whether at a pizzeria or home.

Be found eating lunch at 12 o'clock.
Russians eat on a different schedule and eat different things. After nine years I still sometimes get hungry at noon.  We have zavstrak (breakfast) early... then abed (the midday meal) around 2 PM, which often includes soup, salad, vegetables, entree, and tea, but often no dessert... and oo-jen (supper), a lighter meal around 6 PM. 

The  story goes that a Russian general said... Feed yourself a good zavtrak (breakfast), share your abed (mid-day dinner) with your comrade (each eating half) and give your oo-jen (supper) to your enemy.   The point of the story is that a late big meal will slow you down making you unfit for battle, and also hurt your health.

Know a lot about junk news but little about American jazz.  
Americans are flooded with tacky news for which other nationalities don't have the same fascination.  I remember how surprised I was that often Russians knew more about American jazz than I did.  Why is it that the Europeans know so much more about the USA than many Americans do?

Hold the door for strangers. 
This is one of several positive American characteristics.  As I mentioned in the Russian Spy post, people here don't hold the door for anyone, don't say 'thank you' if you do, and will let the door slam in the next person's face.

Says please and thank you, and expects Russians to be as verbally courteous.
Russians believe a lot of Western courtesy is hogwash and insincere.  Don't hold your breath that this reaction to your courtesy will change.  Russians at home rarely use please or thank you with their families. 

Is wide eyed about what he sees.
Our enthusiasm and eager sight seeing is hard for stoic Russians to understand.

                                                                      ©©©©©
 -Which of these items about Americans do you find admirable or endearing?
 -Which items reflect annoying behavior that you wish Americans would change?
 -Do you have some items to add or change on our list?
                              
Comments are very much Appreciated!  Just click the date below, which will open a window.

American tourist stereotypes, American behavior while in Russia, St Petersburg, waving and pointing, Russian safety consciousness, Russian social space, kissing customs, time urgency,

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